The Frame Awakens...

3/21/2016

"Duct tape is not a perfect solution to anything. But with a little creativity, in a pinch, it's an adequate solution to just about everything." — Jamie Hyneman, MythBusters

So the last few weeks have been frustrating, putzy work. I've been hanging the supports for the black tank, shoring up the grey tank brackets, and putting in angle brackets to keep the tanks from moving. Let me show you:

In the pictures above, I had to build a rack with angle brackets and aluminum u-channel and then drill holes in the frame and secure it. In reality, I had to repeat the process several times. I'm working with tolerances of about 1/4" or less, so it was painstakingly slow. I'd be a terrible carpenter; I don't measure well. On one end, after getting it all in, the last bolt kept breaking and I realize I had measured the u-channel just wrong enough (which was right about 1/4" off) to snap the bolt. I had to take the whole thing apart and redo it. Ugh. After that was in, I built these:

I had to keep the tanks from shifting sideways as the trailer moves. I used 6" steel angle brackets to hold them, like a bookend holds books. Lastly, I needed to grind the rough edges and figure out how to keep them from rubbing holes in the tanks as they bounce down the road:

So in almost every area that was possible, I glued rubber pads between the tanks and the brackets. The glue will be secondary to the pressure of the tank, it all fits very snugly. But there were a few places where there was not enough room for even 1/8" of rubber. What do do?

Everywhere I could, I used the orange rubber pad. But there are several places that the system was too tight. Duct tape.

Lastly, I washed the frame, primed it, and painted. The color doesn't matter because if I've done everything else right no one will ever see it, but we chose it because it will eventually be the accent color of visible things. I used Corroseal rust-inhibitor, Rustoleum primer, and Rustoleum paint. The best practice of the automotive restoration industry is something called POR-15, but it is expensive and a nightmare to use. Since my frame made it this far for 50 years, I figured this work will outlast me.

With the frame finished in the back (YAY!), I'll reinstall the tanks, plumb the pipes and put the subfloor back in. I'm so excited. It feels like I'm actually accomplishing this!

5 Comments

Summer Vance

4/18/2019 04:23:18 pm

Awesome! I'm trying to convert from a rear bath to a mid bath which means moving the black water tank location. I like what you did. Here's my question: where is your drain for this tank? How do you hook up the hose to drain it?

MArk

4/19/2019 08:56:37 am

Thanks for reading! Honestly, if I were to say the ONE THING (and really there are many) that I did wrong it would be the tanks. There are tanks you can purchase through vintage trailer supply that fit in belly without hanging down. My tanks drop below the bellypan and are susceptible to road debris. I've gone nearly 10,000 miles so far without a mishap, but if something hits and cracks my black tank it will make the blog.

But it was very easy to connect the grey/black to a set of valves and drain fittings because of its position. After everything was done and the bellypan back on, I ran and supported a short pipe to the side and put valves on it.

Summer

4/19/2019 10:27:17 am

Thanks so much for the response! I am planning on getting one of those thin VTS black water tanks and welding/riveting a new compartment to the middle of the frame underneath the new bathroom location. I'm planning on keeping a grey water tank in the back of the trailer where my original black water tank sat - that original compartment does sit 4-5" below the belly pan. I figure there's room for enough drop in pipes from a mid bath to that rear grey tank location to not be an issue. My main concern is draining that black water tank!

Does your drain run below the main side beam of the chassis (~6" thick running parallel to the sides of the trailer and perpendicular to the front/back) and then did you cut a hole through the banana wrap for the connection to the hose to drain? I'm concerned about having too much pipe between the black water tank and the valve to connect the drain hose because it seems solid waste would get stuck as I try to empty it. Also, when I look at the ideal tank drain placement, it puts the valve between the wheels, which seems like it would somehow be a bad idea...Another option I've considered is not having any connecting pipe from the black water tank to a drain valve at the side of the trailer. Instead, I would have to connect the drain hose directly to the black water tank by reaching under the trailer. Concerns here are inconvenience obviously, and also less effective insulation of the tank - though I'm not really planning to camp in freezing destinations. Do your tanks have any insulation?

I really, really appreciate any and all thoughts and advice you have! It's so awesome getting input from people who have accomplished what I'm trying to do!

Mark

4/20/2019 08:57:29 am

It seems I didn't take any pics of the drain valves. I'll need to go do that. My black valve is really close to the outlet of the black tank - probably less than a foot, maybe less than 6". From the valve, it doglegs left into a T with the grey tank and the hose attachment immediately after the T. (Both tanks have their own valves to prevent the black from contaminating the grey.) The nice part is that there's always enough pressure in the black to get the solids past the valve, past the T, and into the hose. The grey water gets emptied second and washes it all down - it is mostly soapy water, anyway. I would *strongly* recommend this setup. If you are emptying you tanks separately by disconnecting your hose, you're probably going to be dealing with solid waste in a way you don't want to. I guess they were not connected in the days of yore, but I'm very happy that the grey water washes down the black.

As for the location of the valves, you could be pretty creative if you have the cash. Some valves are even electric, some are manual and go through the floor. The most common are manual pulls. I wouldn't want to try to get at something behind the wheel every time, but if it was electric or otherwise fancy, it might work.

I do need to reach an arm's-length under though, because the tank is between the main frame beams. With the extra connecting plumbing, it's not too far and I don't need to lay down to reach it. You do NOT want to need to lay down to reach it--- the dump station cement is almost always a little "wet".

My toilet pipe into the black tank is over the main frame beams. I did manage to get picture of that in this post: https://www.airstreampadawan.com/blog/winters-work-part-1

Lastly, have you heard of the vintage airstream podcast? www.thevap.com Those guys have the very best advice. I called in several questions in my renovation days and they are the best help. They even spotted a major problem in the background of a pic (that wasn't related to my question) and saved me untold heartache. I'm happy to help, but by no means someone with real wisdom - just a guy who made his own mistakes.

4/22/2019 12:13:00 pm

Awesome! Thanks so much for the help! I may reach out again when I inevitably get stuck :)

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Episode II
A New Hope